pinned: the (almost)complete guide to how I feel about Supernatural and fandom

[alwaysenduphere]

I don't always feel the need to explain myself, but since I consider myself a member of a fandom that has been known to be partially batshit crazy at times, I think it's better to be as clear as possible. Plus I just feel like getting everything out in the open. :)

Am I too obsessed with the show? Probably. I used to sit in class and compare Milton and Doctor Faustus to Supernatural, I used to write fanfic when I was bored in class, and my vocabulary consists of dozens of references to the show. ("Douchnozzle" is my current favorite.) I've paid hundreds of dollars and drove several hours out of my way to see Jared and Jensen in Chicago in November two years in a row. I agree to do(mostly legal) things just to get other people to watch the show and spread the word. I realize some people consider this obsessed, and sure, maybe it is. But I still feel like I retain perspective.

Now that that's out there, the rest of this post is about said obsession. :) I give you:

Supernatural to me boils down to the brothers. It's THEIR show, two brothers, saving people, hunting things, the family business. While I do enjoy the apocalypse story they've got going on in seasons 4 and 5, like any other person, I do miss that. I miss it before it was angels and the apocalypse and "the righteous man" and all this mythology.

I didn't mind when Sam was the special child, but making both Winchesters such an integral part of the mytharc of the show bothers me a bit. The whole reason Dean was such an amazing character was because he was just an average dude who's life had put him in a shitty situation, you know? And now he's the only one who can stop the apocalypse? I'm not sure how I feel about that. He's done enough self-sacrificing already. I DO like that it appears that ANY righteous man could've broken the first seal and he was just unlucky enough to be the man to do it. That said, yes, I'm unsure of the direction of this season, but I'm SO excited to see how it ends. Basically, I'm reserving complete judgment until it's over. It's over, and I enjoyed the season as a whole, but it had its fair share of ups and downs, and I don't consider it THE BEST season of Supernatural at all.


Favorites Episodes:
Season 1: Wendigo, Asylum, Faith
Season 2: In My Time of Dying, Nightshifter(purely for the music cue at the end. Like Jensen and Jared, it is my favorite of the show), Heart, What is and What Should Never Be, All Hell Breaks Loose part 2
Season 3: The Kids are Alright, Malleus Mallificarum, Dream a Little Dream of Me, Mystery Spot, Jus in Bello, No Rest for the Wicked
Season 4: In the Beginning, I Know What You Did Last Summer, Heaven and Hell, On the Head of a Pin, The Monster at the End of This Book, When the Levee Breaks
Season 5: The End, Changing Channels, The Song Remains the Same, My Bloody Valentine, Dark Side of the Moon,

Favorite Character:
Dean. Hands Down, always has been, always will be. I'm sorry for all the Sam fans, I love him too, but I lean towards Dean. I identify more with him than Sam, I think, is what it boils down to. He tries to keep things in, tries to protect the ones he loves and only take care of himself after taking care of everyone else, and I've been told I have that tendency too. That and I've known and loved Jensen longer than Jared, and he's just such a good actor I can't help loving Dean more.

Of everything that has aired, I still consider What is and What Should Never Be as my favorite of all, because of the scene in the graveyard, mainly just because of how much it shows that Dean will be a hunter no matter what life he's put in, much like It's a Terrible Life did.

The End runs a close second in the running for favorite episode. For thoughts on that, read my crazy episode review here.

I couldn't pin down a favorite quote if I tried, frankly, so I'll probably never include that category. About the same with favorite scenes/moments, there are so many. Most of my favorite episodes contain my favorite scenes, but there are exceptions (i.e. the ends of Bloodlust and CSPwDT). Maybe one day I could compile a list, but I doubt it. I can't do it with Buffy to this day, and doubt I ever will be able to. There's moments of every episode that are just amazing.

Other opinions on the show:

Ruby. I realize she's hit or miss for tons of people, and that the show is about TWO BROTHERS, so on, so forth, but I LOVE that there's a strong female character who can hold her own against the amazingness of Winchesters. Now, yes, I loved Katie Cassidy's Ruby, but now we have Genevieve, and I do admit I did NOT at all like her portrayal of Ruby at first AT ALL, but I reserved judgment because of my love for the character. And you know what? I may just be a sucker for some Sam/Ruby het but I grew to like New!Ruby, too. And the ending twist just made her awesome, frankly. Yeah, the attempts to make her more "likeable" are obviously what ruined her character more,, but the fact that she was bad the whole time was just cool. Plus, come on: "You didn't need the feather to fly. You had it in you the whole time, Dumbo." Best speech ever. I think she could've been really cool had they not killed her. :(

Castiel. I find Castiel an incredibly enigmatic character, but I'm not apeshit gaga over him like most of the fandom. I was at first, because he was new and shiny, but now he's just another plot device to me. A GOOD device. Do I 'ship Dean/Cas? No, not unless it's epically well-written. Do I believe that Cas cares too much for Dean for what an angel should care? YES. I do believe there's a relationship between them that an angel and a human shouldn't have, but it's a far stretch to me to say that it's sexual. And yes, I enjoy calling him Cas. And I do agree that Misha Collins is himself is pretty awesome, but again, I'm still too in love with Jared and Jensen to be truly Team Misha.

Uriel. There was nothing about Uriel that was not awesome. Angels that are Dicks? CHECK. I am a little miffed at the way his character ends, however, simply because it screws up what we know about angels so far, to me. For starters, the only thing to kill an angel is that sword? Then how come in 4.02 Cas tells Dean he lost soldiers in battle that day? IDK. I liked Uriel, is all.

Anna. I know people don't like her, I know some HATE her, that she's a Mary Sue, unnecessary, so on, so forth. And to a certain extent, I can see and even agree on their points. She was very interesting as 1-900-Angel, when she became a fallen, again, I think it made the mythology more complicated than it needed to be. And now that she's just a rebel angel floating around, urging Cas to fall, I don't know. Again, I reserve judgment, but I think her character has great potential. I like her enough to have created a community for her, for sure. (Shameless plug for spn_anna.) Plus again, I'm a sucker for some Dean/Anna het love. And red hair, and Julie McNiven because she's cute. The only thing I point out to the Anna haters is: Without Anna to tell Dean that she knew what he'd done in hell, that it was OKAY, he would've never opened up to Sam at the end of Heaven and Hell.

Alastair: Dude. Creepiest bad guy ever. A hint of YED with much more malice. I was sad he got offed so soon and that we didn't get to see Dean torture him more, frankly. Plus Dean should've been the one to kill him.

John Winchester: Frankly, I don't like the man, I don't like what he did to his sons, how I'm sure both Dean and Sam carry guilt around to this day that they needn't because of him. But he was a BAMF.

Jess: I wish we could've seen more of her, basically. I would love to know more about her, and her relationship to Sam, her similarities to Dean.

Cassie: I know people hate her too, and I agree, the acting was terrible. But as a character, as the one girl we know of that Dean's loved, that he's wanted to be honest with, that means something. And we can't just forget her.

Adam: Suppose I neeed to throw him in this too. I realize we didn't actually get to know the REAL Adam, and we don't know if the ghoul's impersonation of him was anything similar to his actual personality, sadly. I'm not bothered by the fact that Sam and Dean have a third brother. John was still in love with his dead wife, sure, but he's still a man and men had needs. I thought it was sad that Adam died before they got to know him. Tragic. An unnecessary storyline, but it did show how much Sam has become John. And I am glad it didn't become the Sam, Dean, and Adam show.

Lucifer: I absolutely love, love, what they've done with Lucifer so far. As someone who hates having Christianity forced upon me, I really like the option of showing Lucifer as a sympathetic character. Paradise Lost is one of my favorite pieces of actual "literature" and Satan's story in that is one I didn't mind writing papers on in college. Watching Jared play Samifer in The End sent chills up my spine. It was everything I'd want a Lucifer to be.

Uhm...I don't know what else. Going through individual guest star characters would take much too long, and really, I don't care THAT much.

All episode reviews are located under the tag spn: in retrospect. I don't do them every week, but I do do them frequently. I said do-do, haha.



Onto Fandom. Dun Dun Dun.

Wincest: I admit, I read it, I love it. But like most things I read, I am hugely picky. For instance, the boys should never call each other "baby." And if your fic...nah, I won't get into the details of homosexual sex, that's just weird. But read THIS please and take into consideration before you write fic. Do some research. That's all.

Do I truly believe Sam and Dean are SamnDean? Not so much. There's nothing in canon that shows me without a doubt that they are. In fact, now that The Monster at the End of the Book has poked fun at fandom, I think it's highly unlikely. But I think the possibility is there, and that with the right circumstance (aka the right fic writer's plot) it could easily happen or have happened. I love the idea of the two of them ONLY having each other, because let's face it, with the life they lead, there's not much time left for romance. I think its a perfectly feasible idea that the two of them, on the road and each other as the only constant in one another's life, could have some sort of relationship that goes deeper than siblings. Does that mean I condone incest? Not at all. However, unlike probably the majority of people in the world, I don't actually have a problem with consensual incest, although I do pity the poor souls who would try to make a go of it in today's close-minded world.

J2: I've found myself trying to explain how I feel about this a lot recently, which is the reason I think I finally got around to making this post. And honestly, I still don't think I can explain, lol. For starters, J2 can either mean Jared and Jensen, or Jared/Jensen, depending on the context. Do I think Jared and Jensen are having a secret relationship other than just friendship? I think they've at least thought about it, yeah. They really can't have NOT with all the flack they take about it from fans (and you can't tell me they don't know). But my definition of a relationship can be just an emotional connection and not necessarily a sexual one. I'm not comfortable assuming enough about them to say without a doubt that "OMG THEYRE DOIN IT." And I doubt I ever will be, frankly. I wouldn't want people making that assumption about me and my best friend just because of the way we look at each other and speak of each other and so on, so I can't honestly do it about anyone else. Granted, I do squee along with everyone else when they say things like "WE were late because Jensen hit off instead of snooze" (First example that popped into mind), but overall, I'm just a girl who wants them to be happy, however that may be, but I can indulge in hope with everyone else. I just don't get too invested in it one way or the other. I don't even know if that makes sense.

Genevieve: I haven't watched Wildfire or anything else. I only have Supernatural with which to judge. And while she's not the greatest actress ever, she's held her own on the show. Little shaky at first, but I'm sure it's improved since she became more comfortable with the character. I DON'T think it's right to bash an actress just because you don't like the character she portrays. And while I don't particularly care for the shape of her mouth, she is a very attractive individual. That's about all I have to say there.

Danneel: I've only seen her acting in One Tree Hill, Fired Up, and Ten Inch Hero, and while she's not up to Jensen's acting, she can certainly cry well. Also, she's a beautiful individual, so much so that I'm a little jealous of Jensen. I've watched some interviews with her, and while her voice annoys me a bit and at times she does come off a little fake, there's nothing to suggest she's anything but a nice girl who just happens to be unlucky enough to date a guy with a very protective fandom. I like her, okay? She's fucking gorgeous.

Jared/Gen: I'm a big believer in taking what you see at face value, so until Jared and Genevieve say "We're together" I'm going to keep thinking they're just good friends. WELL THEN. I understand the need to keep a relationship private, I do, but I also understand that if you're happy, you want to share that with other people. I don't quite feel they're doing that. But irregardless, I have no opinion. I just want them happy.

Jensen/Danneel: I think anyone who sticks together for 2+ years has a relationship of some sort. Bottom line. Plus, god, aren't they gorgeous together? I was absolutely thrilled to hear they are engaged, and while yeah, I might be a little disappointed that Jared and Jensen didn't propose to each other, I will be absolutely thrilled if these two do make it to the alter. I love the idea of them making each other smile 'til death do they part because they both have beautiful smiles. And will have beautiful children.

(I started out much more articulate and wanting to be more articulate about this, but I'm tired now and this post is getting really long).

Actually, I think my bottom line is I want the boys happy, whoever they're with.

I'm sure more could be said in this post, and I imagine I'll come back and edit it from time to time, but it's so long and I don't know what else I can say right now. If any of this offends you in any way, first I ask that you try to agree to disagree with me, as it's what I try to do with everyone I don't agree with, but if you find that too difficult, please feel free to defriend me, no hard feeling here. I do ask that you tell me why you're defriending, but it isn't necessary. I'm just one of those people who hates making others unhappy in any way.

I'd leave pictures, but this post is long enough already. Plus I wouldn't be able to pick just one. I'm very indecisive, if you haven't noticed.

Got anything else you want my opinion on? Or think should be included in this post? Feel free to let me know. :)

I realize this is long, but I hope everyone takes the time to read it and comment. I'm really interested in hearing other people's thoughts, even when I don't agree. :) Feel free to point other people over here, too.



last updated: 22 Feb. 2010

Comments

[static-pixie.livejournal.com]

'Reserve Judgment' have been my keywords this season. Clearly the show is leading up to something huge and I'm waiting to see what that is before I really judge. Personally, I've liked the pacing of this season but it's true; watching season one and two episodes made me miss Sam and Dean. I get the feeling they'll just come out of this fight stronger and on a more equal footing but still.

And I do agree that Misha Collins is himself is pretty awesome, but again, I'm still too in love with Jared and Jensen to be truly Team Misha.,
THIS! I know it's kind of silly but I hate it when people say, 'the boys' and they mean Jared, Jensen...and Misha. Because no, he's not a regular yet and he's just...not part of the JarednJensen thing, whatever that is. Misha is very cute, but yeah, I just can't get into him.

Oh, and Jared confirmed he was single in a blog interview. Meaning, yeah, he and Gen officially aren't together anymore.

Also, random. Anna's kind of grown on me. I ship her with Ruby and I think I'm the only one that does. I dunno, I think it could be hot. I'm not fond of the idea that she's kind of taken Castiel's place in certain areas, though. If they wanted to make Dean's angel female...why not just make her female?

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

As I was making this, I realized just how much stuff I reserve judgement on and then I felt a little silly saying I had an opinion, lol.

yeah, the boys will always be Jared and Jensen to me.

I saw that interview, actually. I just conveniently forgot about it when making this post?

Oooh, no, you're not the only one. I can name a couple others, myself included. I hope she's there more to supplement Cas, but so far...ehhh...not sure yet.

[albeitslowly.livejournal.com]

*loves this post and draws hearts all around it*

Wish I could expound, but work beckons. *sigh*

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

aw, work. one day i'll have one of them there job thingies.

come back when you're not working! hee.

[surevesta.livejournal.com]

I <3 you.

Also, the second half of the Texan interview (find it on Dean_Sam) had a portion where Jared is described as newly single. Not sure how accurate but just a new thought to have. :)

You make me want to do something similar.

Since I've stopped puking (I need to go see a doctor as this cold has turned flu-y) I may type something out like this myself.

I also don't hate Ruby... I actually loved S3 Ruby... I think the character has awesome potential. I just don't like Gen's portrayal of her at *all*. It's just not Ruby... the other actresses that played her in 409 did a much better job then she did.

I am *annoyed* with Gen after a few interviews I read a couple of months ago... which I may hunt down later... but I don't hate the girl. I just don't think she's done a good job with Ruby.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

hee, glad i inspired you to make your own post. swear i'll read it tomorrow but i'm like falling asleep right now, but i can't stop following the twitter con updates.

Yeah, I did see that interview, but I wodnered how accurate it was too. Also, I forgot about it when i was making this post.

I hope you're on the way to getting better! Seems like you've been sick for awhile.

I miss Katie's Ruby, for sure. But I guess I've finally accepted that I'm stuck with Genevieve, and decided that that's okay.

[phanie28.livejournal.com]

What you say about Ruby and about Gen's portrayal of her, I agree with you 100%. I love that character, I think Ruby is important to the story line but you're right, the actress that played her in the episode "I Know What you Did Last Summer" was so much better.

Hope you better soon. :)

[miss-faith-hope.livejournal.com]

Ooo I need to make an post like this because I am sick of people bashing Danneel and these so called shit about Jared and Jensen being secretly gay and than all that other shit. It amuses me but, come on.

[jenniferkaos.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. Fandom needs to stop bashing Danneel. Yes we all like to daydream about Jared and Jensen together but come on! Reality is they are both straight men. Not gonna happen. :-)

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Aw, well they could secretly be gay? hehe. But I agree, I don't like it that people bash Danneel simply because they want the boys to be gay.

[getyourguns.livejournal.com]

I am stealing this idea eventually. You're more into fandom money-wise than me but you do keep perspective on reality. You're not a nutter like SOME people (and I'm sure we could all name 5 right off the bat and they'd be different but all good examples) so WOO. If I had more money I'd be right there going to another con and getting ops and being obnoxious but awesome.

♥

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

I don't know where the fuck I get this money from (yes I do, god bless my parents, lol). I plan to never be one of those people who goes to tons of cons and gets tons of pictures, but I do want to have the experience to meet them and get the picture and sit close enough I can see their faces. Which, if I don't get to actually buying a con ticket, I may not get to do, since Gold and Silver are sold out now, I was just informed. :|

LOL. Yay for not being a nutter. And I've got 10 ppl in my head right now, so totally.

Last year going to the con only cost me $50 for the ticket plus gas to get into Chicago,and it was amazing. Maybe one day you'll get the chance for it to work out like that, too. :)

Sorry for bein' a rambly commenter. I may be a bit inebriated still.

<3

[xxtornxxapartxx.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you said ♥

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

<3

[kefira.livejournal.com]

This was very well written. My opinions are nowhere near as strong as yours but I do enjoy reading about how people feel about their fandoms. I think for me mostly because I have been there done that with other fandoms and really do not want to anymore.

:)

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I took a lot of time writing it, so I'm glad it comes off as well-written.

I think this is truly the most involved I've been in a fandom and probably the most I will ever be for exactly that reason. It's so much work! lol.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

While I don't agree with everything you say (and I'll get to the part I disagree with in a second), I like the way you think, and the way you explained yourself. I completely agree on the wincest and the J2.

I've had this conversation with my husband, who is completely aware of my affinity for this fandom and is enabling me to indulge by coming with me from Australia to Chicago Con this November.

For me, the way I see the J2 is this: They're the closest friends I've ever seen in my life. Ever. Hands down. And not only did I wish I had a friend like that, I suppose I do but I married him so he's kind of got a more evolved role now. But when it comes to fic? I think of the fic J2 on the same par as Dean and Sam Winchester - fictional characters. In my brain, there's Jensen and Jared Reality... and Jensen and Jared Fictional characters who usually have sex with each other. Same names, same bodies, but essentially characters. I must admit, I do prefer J2 AU over Canon.

I have no problem with adult consensual incest portrayed in wincest fanfic, but find it much more believable when it's Dean and Sam AU where they're brothers but didn't grow up together. There is a phenomenon called Genetic Sexual Attraction, which is usually found in situations where siblings or parent and child were separated at the child's birth and grew up apart and not knowing the other. When they finally meet, the need to be together, to have that sense of belonging to each other becomes so strong, the fear of loss so overwhelming that the desire for love and affection spills into sexual attraction. There was a documentary done in the UK on it. I can't bring myself to like weecest because it just doesn't gel for me. *shrug*

I'm a Dean girl too. Love him so much it's not even in the realm of funny. I'm a massive Jensen Ackles fan, and have been following his work since Days Of Our Lives (I'm a year younger than Jensen is, so I remember coming home from University and watching Days of Our Lives and seeing his face, completely mesmerised by the pretty.). I'm honestly thankful his work has improved, and proud that he's come as far as he has so far. I know he'll keep climbing. With Dean... I've been a Dean girl from the beginning too. I loved his brash attitude that he showed to the world, when you know it was just a front to hide his feelings. I love his love of family, his taste in music and cars and his sense of humour. I think Jensen's comedic timing and ability to pull off those scenes are is just phenomenal. Plus the way he pulls off a leather jacket and jeans should be illegal.

I like Jared as an actor and in the beginning Sam was a little too emo and a little too goody two shoes for my liking but he was a fantastic compliment to Dean, and Jared has brilliantly fabulous chemistry with Jensen which just made me love him more. But now in Season 4, the change in Sam is so dramatic that I'm finding it a little hard to swallow. Just a tad. And I think that's a little tainted by...

The new Ruby. Now I have nothing against Genevieve. I haven't seen her in anything else, and I have no doubt that she's probably the most lovely girl in the world. I hate her portrayal of Ruby. Hate it. And I've had many discussions with my husband over this because he keeps telling me to build a bridge and get over it. I adored Katie Cassidy's portrayal of Ruby. Loved the character, loved her ability to manipulate the situation, loved her bitchy kickass attitude, and yet she had shown some understanding and even regret that she couldn't save Dean from going to hell.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

The change in Ruby's portrayal has detracted from the series for me. I've watched other demons be portrayed by different actors and they've managed to keep the continuity of the character. I just can't get that from Genevieve. Can't get it. Ruby comes on screen now and i cuddle my pillow, bite on the corner and try not to grumble. I've yet to see a scene I thought was done well, and I can't get my head around the unexplained changes in the character's personality. I just... yeah. I'm not a new!Ruby fan at all and it's a shame because I loved her character.

Now that we've seen where Mary and John came from when they were first together, it makes John make a lot more sense - especially if Mary never told John even after her parents died just what was out there - which is obvious from the first season and a half where they were finding out the whole story and piecing everything together. I'm with you in that I miss the brothers against the world. I do miss that too, so much some times it aches. But then I love the angst and the turmoil so I live with it.

I know our fandom is considered by some to be batshit crazy, and sometimes some of the things that are said and posted to be honest makes me want to tear my hair out but then I don't put myself out there so I just close the window and move on. But I love Supernatural and I love that some of my friends are obsessed with it as I am. And I'm with Kripke. I want the show to go out when he wants it to. I don't want it to drag on and die a slow and painful death. I don't want Sam and Dean to be replaced. If it ends with Season 5, but the way that the creator designed it, then I'm satisfied with that. We can make up our own futures. That's what fandom does.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

First off, Thank you for your very articulate answers!

Wee!cest doesn't gel too well for me either. Sometimes, but not usually. And what you say about AU makes sense. I dunno, I just prefer my fiction as real as possible. Which is like a walking contradiction. IDK.

YES to all that. It's a little ridiculous how much I love Dean, it really is. And YES to how you feel about SAM too, omg. He was sooo whiny to start with, which is why I think I automatically liked Dean SO MUCH better.

I've mostly accepted Gen as Ruby, I guess, because I know Katie's not coming back. *shrug*

Ah, hit the max character limit, huh? lol. I HATE that.

And yeah, I don't want a show that continues without its creator. Usually when that happens the show goes downhill(I'm looking at you, Gilmore Girls). While I'm open to the possibility that it could still continue and be okay, I don't think the boys would stay if Kripke left, and it wouldnt' be the show without them. So I'm prepared for it ending at season 5, and I hope it does.

And I agree with you about fandom. Most of the time I just shake my head or roll my eyes and move on, but I don't know. I feel like people outside fandom have this terrible view of us and sometimes I get defensive.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know Katie's not coming back, and I have a feeling that if they changed Ruby into another vessel, the new actress would take her cue from Genevieve's portrayal and then we're stuck with an even MORE annoying Ruby. So I suck it up. But... ugh. I don't like it.

OH so that's what happened to GG to make it crappy! I always wondered. My husband is a mad GG fan. MAD. Like he's getting Jared to sign his favourite early GG DVD. They're definitely his not mine.

And I know what you mean about getting defensive. I don't tell people at work how deep into fandom I am, but my friends there know I'm going to Chicago for a Supernatural Convention in November. Most of them are like WOW That's dedication but the girls?? They've all been calling me a bitch and a cow for being able to meet the Guys. TEEHEE.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

haha, my best friend's like that with GG.

I was in a really good mood yday and someone asked me why and I was all "cuz there's gonna be Oz Con stuff when I get online!" And then realized they didn't realize how crazy I was. And they were just kinda o.O about it. And then they were like..."cool?!" lol. Ya never know.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHA I totally get what you mean. I'm so lucky in that my two friends that I hang out with the most are both into fandom too, but different fandoms! Like one is a total sci-fi nut, and went to SupaNova last year in Sydney and met Jared (she got me an autograph so I'm like WOHOO! Personalised and everything!), and the other one is completely into ice hockey like me and we met through ice hockey slash fics and fandom on LJ. And now we're close and hang out and everything.

But when things remind me of fandom or something in particular about it - for example, with ice hockey, there's a penalty which is called SLASHING and you get 2 minutes in the penalty box for it. There's a community for ice hockey fanfic called 2mins4slashing. So whenever I'm at a game and someone gets called for it and the announcer is like "Suchandsuch player two minutes for SLASHING!" and I just CRACK UP LAUGHING and only Sasky, Dianne and my husband Sam know why I'm laughing. Everyone around me looks at me strangely. So I totally get that.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

haha. Ah, the ambiguous use of the word "slash" is always good for a laugh.

[magikalrhiannon.livejournal.com]

It's even better when it's a player that is regularly slashed in fandom. Ahhh simple things. *GRIN*

[bloemche.livejournal.com]

Word!

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

<3

[momentine.livejournal.com]

This is exactly how I feel about Supernatural, the fandom and the real life of it all. Kudos :)

I'm not a believer in incest or wincest myself, although I can read some of the well planned, tasteful ones and enjoy them without feeling uncomfortable. I think it's because I watched a program on the Discovery Channel (yes I'm a D- channel watcher -_-) that was about why incest is wrong, which put me off reading it.
And, to be honest, as long as the boys are happy, whether it's with each other (which I don't really believe, if I'm honest, but that's mostly because I only have friends that are boys and 2:1 of them are touchy feely but have gfs and such) or with Danneel and Genevieve (or whoever), then I'm happy for them :) Again, I can read the well planned and tasteful J2 together fics and enjoy.

I still don't like Anna, I think Julie seems like a total doll, but I think, in the same way as Cassie stupidly screaming 'Dean! Dean!' into a phone, her Beauty and the Beast-beams of light acting display totally ruined her for me. Which is a shame, since I think her character, although slightly mary-sue, had potential.

Also (and I'm so sorry since this was gonna be like a one liner going 'go you!') I actually liked S4 Ruby. I think she's a little more stoic which worked due to the fact that horrible things had happened to her in Hell which probably slapped the 'tude off of her. I *cough* actually prefer her to Katie, but that's only because I think Katie is gorgeous and I'm jealous. Totally willing to admit that hehe.

I'll leave you alone now ;) n__n

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Dude, Discovery Channel is awesome. But I'm glad I didn't see that program, lol.

ahaha, Beauty and the Beast-beams of light. SO TRUE.

Katie is gorgeous, fo' sho'. And yay, I'm glad to hear that there are people in the world who LIKE Nu!by and aren't just kind of like...meh. Which in a way, I am, but I also agree with you, she's likely changed attitudes since spending time in hell.

You're totally fine! I love hearing other people's thoughts, s'why I posted!

[momentine.livejournal.com]

Lol yeah, wish I hadn't, was more bad than 'normal'. I felt bad for them, they had this couple on that had been married for a year before telling them it was illegal because it turned out the girl was the guy's half sister and was adopted away or something :S

I know, right? All I could think about was 'Beast and Disney did it better' *shakes her head*

I like to think that I support the weaker people, I automatically feel, like, really protective. I have no clue why lol. I reserved my judgement, with both Ruby and Bela, found Bela to lack something towards the general story apart from piss me off (I've never heard any English person in my whole 18.85 years of life here that says Ciao!) Anyway, I liked the reason behind Ruby, and didn't feel that she deviated from the 'two brothers' idea, although at the moment she is but I hope that changes n__n

I always like these kinda opinion posts, and I have a lot of opinions lol! :D

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Aw. :| Poor people.

I know, I get really defensive for the losing side of the argument a lot. lol. I didn't really care one way or another for Bela, but she only really got interesting right before she died. They could've written her much better. And I think Ruby is just a necessary sidecar on the brothers' journey. IDK. I'm not feelin' articulate today, lol.

[phanie28.livejournal.com]

On some points I agree with what you said, on others I disagree. I won't go into details too much though.

For me whatever personal love relationship Jared and Jensen may have, as long as they're happy, I'm happy.

I do love reading J2 and Wincest fics, some are incredibly awesome.

I love the new direction the story has taken, with the angels and everything but I do miss the boys just hunting things, saving people and doing research together like they used to do back in seasons 1 and 2. The only big problem I have with season 4 is Ruby, I love that character but I really don't like how Genevieve is "somewhat" playing her. And this is my personal opinion here but after reading some interviews with her, I can honestly tell you that I don't like her at all.

What you were saying about being an obsessed fan, I'm right there with you on that, just going to the Chicago con last November (I drove 30 hours to get there and the money it took...) shows how much I love this TV show and Jared and Jensen. I'm a mom with 3 kids and a lot of the people around me thought I was crazy to do this but I don't even care lol.

Also, I just want to say that I never believe what is said in written interviews when it comes to the boys personal lives. The only way I'll be able to say that something is true is if I see Jared and Jensen say it in video interviews or at cons, otherwise it's just speculation, anybody can write anything.

I love this show, I love this fandom, because of it I have some wonderful new friends and that's something I think is priceless.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

s long as they're happy, I'm happy. That's what it boils down to for me. I'm glad to see others share my opinion on that.

Yeah, like I can't go a day without mentioning Supernatural or something related, and I'm sure my non-fan friends are like "nutcase." Then again, I don't have very many of those because I've converted everyone, mwahaha. But they still kind of just laugh it off when I start say, sending them con updates.

That's probably a good plan. I'm always skeptical of what I read in the written interviews.

Indeed. <3

[queenjazzy.livejournal.com]

The core of the show for me is definitely the brothers as well. I love the angels, but this season has really made me miss Sam and Dean. It also got me confused on how I felt about Sam until I watched all of the aired episodes in a row and I was finally able to come to an understanding of him again.

Dean love! =) When I first started watching I loved both of the brothers equally, but somehow I became biased. I still can't figure out when it happened exactly, I just know one day Dean became my favorite. I think it's rooted in the fact that I can relate to him more than I can Sam.

I had to warm up to both versions of Ruby and I'll admit I prefer Katie's Ruby, but I've come to accept Gen's Ruby. I still don't think Gen can act all that well and that was one of the problems I had with New!Ruby, but I've started to get past that.

I do believe there's a relationship between them that an angel and a human shouldn't have, but it's a far stretch to me to say that it's sexual.
I can see you're point on that since I wasn't always a Dean/Cas shipper. I used to scrunch my nose up at the idea of them having sex since I hadn't really seen anything sexual about their relationship; I mostly just saw companionship/friendship/however you want to phrase it. Even shipping them now, I still don't really see a sexual relationship. Did that make sense? I'm not entirely sure it did, lol. I'm not very good at orginazing my thoughts sometimes.

Everything you said about Uriel; I agree with all of that. Plus, I'm always happy to see others that liked him since I know too many people who didn't.

I also wish we'd gotten to know more about Jess and that Alastair hadn't been killed so soon; he was awesome.

Ah, Papa Winchester. I have such a love-hate relationship with him.

I don't read a whole lot of Wincest, but I do occasionally read it and your views on it are really valid points. As for J2 fics; I avoid fics about real people like the plague. I just can't read them.

I'm with you on just wanting the boys to be happy, whoever they're with. As long as their happy, that's all that matters.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I mean, I still really like Sam. I'm not like "OMG WTF." I understand what he's got goin' on right now, I just care more for Dean, can't help it.

That's about how I feel about Ruby, too, yeah.

Kinda, it does. I think you can 'ship people and it's still not all about teh sex.

Ah, RPS. It's such a fine line. And while I still feel a littleuncomfortable reading it, because well, I wouldn't want people writing it about me if I were them, it IS just fiction in good fun, so I just keep that in mind. *shrug*

[queenjazzy.livejournal.com]

Lol. That's about how I feel about Sam.

I'm glad that made sense because I wasn't entirely sure if I had phrased it right or not. And I'm definitely for that ships don't have to be all about sex since not all relationships are about that. I find the non-sex stuff in ships more interesting than the sex. I really just enjoy the building of relationships and the nice little moments between ships.

That's mainly my problem with RPS, it makes me uncomfortable reading it, so I've just made a habit of avoiding it. I might try to read some again some day and if I do I'll remember to keep what you said in mind, that it's just fiction in good fun. That might actually help me with it.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

yeah. it's the moments in between that make it a relationship and not just a fuckfest. crude comparison is crude, but accurate.

i'm pretty picky about what i read, generally only recced stuff, which helps ut down on the squick factor a bit since its well-written. i can basically read anything as long as i enjoy the writing style. (case in point, just read some jared/misha, which i thought i'd NEVER do.)

[queenjazzy.livejournal.com]

I try to avoid being crude, but sometimes it's unavoidable.

I am totally picky on what I read too. I normally read things by my flist or stuff they reccomend. Sometimes I seek things out on my own, but not often. Also, I decided to give RPS another try tonight, since my friend wanted me to read a Jared/Misha fic (lol). It was nicely written and I actually liked it, which totally surprised me.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I find I'm not a very eloquent person a lot of times anymore. Oh, well.

I read a Jared Misha fic that night too. I feel a bit like I'm betraying the OTP, lol.

[lessrest.livejournal.com]

Awesome post! <3

I agree with most of it, except s4 is completely rockin' my socks of, so I've already passed judgment and decided that it's Teh Best Season Evah. ;)
Also I am fangirling Misha 100%. I'd say 110%, but I've studied to much math for that. :p

Do I think Jared and Jensen are having a secret relationship other than just friendship? I think they've at least thought about it, yeah. But my definition of a relationship can be just an emotional connection and not necessarily a sexual one. I'm not comfortable assuming enough about them to say without a doubt that "OMG THEYRE DOIN IT." And I doubt I ever will be, frankly. I wouldn't want people making that assumption about me and my best friend just because of the way we look at each other and speak of each other and so on, so I can't honestly do it about anyone else.
Jared and Jensen reminds me of JD and Turk from Scrubs (Jared is totally JD). They also have that very touchy, awesome friendship, and people slash them... well, kind of. In one of the latest episodes the hospital interns were acting in a play where they mimicked different persons on the hospital, and their JD-and-Turk bit consisted of them making out. Heeeh. xD
...Basically, I watch Scrubs and giggle over the J2-ish bits. I'm easily amused.

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Like I love season 4 on the one hand, but on the other...I don't know.

YES. *cue the man love song* I heart Scrubs. I don't watch enough of it, though.

[meiou-set.livejournal.com]

Oooh I loved this post, very cool to see your view of Spn and Spn fandom all in one place.

And while I LOVE season 4, I do miss that. I miss it before it was angels and the apocalypse and "the righteous man" and all this mythology.

I actually came to Spn for real after the mythology began rolling along. That is, I watched kind of halfheartedly until the end of the 1st season came about. I do enjoy the chemistry of the brothers though, but it's the mythology that really got me omg hooked.

I know some parts of fandom didn't like the strife in season 4, but I actually didn't mind it. In my mind it was a long time since we saw the bros that contentious, partly because ya kno, one of them kept dying ^_^. I'm feeling a little meh about S4 now that its over. I thought it was pretty freakin brilliant up until this last ep where the resolution to the emo problems seemed to come a little too fast. But I'm a huge angst whore and a masochist--prolonged discord between the bros would not be all that bad for me, especially with the whole good/evil thing. There were ways to make it uncliche-ish which wouldn't have included such a neat resolution between the bros. It seemed to me that in the finale the writers sorta wussied out. We'll see if the fangs come out next season.

My fave eps are in S1 definitely Home, Faith (there with you), Shadow and Devil's Trap.
S2: In my Time of Dying, Nightshifter (there with you about the music cue), Roadkill, What Is And What Should Never Be and the finale.
S3:The Magnificent Seven, Mystery Spot (love it SO SO much, so dark and messed up, but so funny), Jus in Bello.
S4: In the Beginning, I Know What You Did Last Summer, Heaven and Hell, The Monster At the End Of this Book,

I think I would consider myself more drawn to Sam than Dean (although not by a whole lot). I just think that I can relate more easily to Sam, Dean's still the hotter one though, by a mile.

As for characters I really don't mind Ruby at all (don't see the why for all the fandom hate). I actually liked the ambiguity she brought, a lot. Hated that they killed her. I don't really see the appeal of Castiel, on the otherhand. He's alright, but not amazing. So I'm clueless about why fandom is head over heels on him.As for Uriel, I'm also annoyed that he had to go (I really like the actor too from the Wire) too and I agree about Alsatair's creepiness. That voice! I thought Anna was vastly underused and I am expecting her to be back or I will be PISSED. John Winchester, I thought, was a terrible man, but I liked him as a character and I actually found him to be more or a tragic figure than anything else. Jess, oh don't get me started, I wanted to like her so much, but yeah...As for Cassie, it kind of sucked she was introduced in such a bad episode.

On Fandom

Wincest: I read it, but not passionately. There's very few Wincest fics where it just clicked for me. But I can't say I've read everything out there. Also I don't see Wincest fitting within canon (because you don't really need to take it to the realm of sex for their relationship to be as intense as it is, if that makes sense), nor would I want it to. I like that separation between canon and fanon.

J2: I read less of this than Wincest, but I've liked what I read. I don't really keep up with actor's lives so I don't have a firmly held position with them. I feel though, that there's a lot of talented J2 writers.

You said we could ask, and I'm sorry if this is repeating something you've written but do you agree with the accusations of gender!fail in Spn?

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

I love it when people leave epic meaty comments like this, but it always takes me forever to take the time to sit down and respond, lol. :|

I really miss seasons 1&2. I'm more fond of season 4 now that its over and the arc is told, but I agree, the finale was just kind of...meh. I was kinda hoping they'd stay at odds with each other a little longer, too, and maybe more evil Sam and semi-hell torturer Dean would've been seen.

Dean's still the hotter one though, by a mile. Well, I'm glad you see that! HAHA. I really think it's near impossible to pick one brother over the other and like not want to pick the other one the next second. Which is probably what makes the show so awesome.

I will be SO PISSED if they don't do anything else with Anna. SO PISSED. I am kinda falling into the whole Misha love circle, but I still don't have anything but mild like for Castiel. I'm still annoyed that they killed Ruby, especially since her character seemed semi-unnecessary for parts of this season, and then they turn around and give her an awesome motive/backstory/whatnot, and then boom, just when she could become something neat, let's kill her off. :(( And Cassie, yeah, I didn't care for the actress and the episode was fail, the concept of a woman that Dean legitimately seemed to LOVE is just fascinating and I wish it'd been done better.

Wincest, I don't know. I think my liking of it is fluid or something. I came into SPN fandom from Heroes where there's Petrellicest like whoa, so it wasn't a big jump for me to start reading. But I understand what you mean about the intensity of a relationship and not being sexual in anyway. I think in fact, most of my favorite stories in this fandom are Gen stories. I certainly find them more believeable as a whole, but every once in awhile, a Wincest gem come along where I can just SEE it happening on the show...if the show aired on like HBO or something, right.

I've started to read A LOT less J2 than I used to, mostly because of that uncomfort factor. Especially after recent Asylum events, but again, I'll read almost anythign if it's well-written enough and well-recced, at this point.

Hmm. To an extent, YES. Especially in like Anna's case, where her character started out with potential then kinda failed. Same with Bela, except her character was neat in the first ep we saw her in, then seemed mostly unnecessary in the next few, and then she became interesting again when they decided to kill her. She could've been a better built character. Jo would've been had they not tried to make her a half-hearted damsel in distress while still being kind of a hunter. They've had good female characters, though, like Layla and Sarah, Ellen to a point, I'd argue Jessica, too, Carmen(I have such love for Carmen!), and Ruby, too. Ruby especially because she held her own against the Winchesters for 2 seasons, and I think her character could've been written much better. It annoys me that she got the chance to be a character for two seasons where like, Jo, hasn't even so much been MENTIONED again. How's that for explanation, haha?

[tinalia.livejournal.com]

"I've watched some interviews with her, and while her voice annoys me a bit and at times she does come off a little fake, there's nothing to suggest she's anything but a nice girl who just happens to be unlucky enough to date a guy with a very protective fandom."
Couldn't have said it better. And if people start saying she's bitchy and horrible - imagine how you'd get fed up of people hating you because you with the man of their dreams?

Agreed wholeheartedly with pretty much everything you said. As for the Ruby character - hated it. Hated. It. I loved Katie Cassidy's portrayal - the girl injected Ruby with some serious sarcastic spunk - but I didn't like the character. It very much felt like she was just someone the writer's threw in there to appease the network (which they did), without charcter development. And then. AND THEN.

Genevieve's portrayal (which I hated even more than the character) came full circle when she burst out in the season finale, going manic and screaming "I was better than any of those sons of bitches! I was the best! I'm AWESOME!". The whole thing made me think that Ruby was the way she was because she was trying to be invisible/in the background while she put together her intricate evil plan to get Sam to bring on the apocalypse. And I came away from all of that thinking "Holy crap. That woman has been fuckin' with me all season. She's BRILLIANT."

I don't think I ever need to make a post like yours. I'll simply refer to yours :P

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Hee! Thanks.

[force-oblique.livejournal.com]

I am so with you on most of the points you mention. Especially the Ruby ones.
I loved Katie's Ruby but I have to admit I adored Gen!Ruby too!!
I think she was awesome and I have seen Wildfire and she was just wow!!
so much love for her!
I am not big on hate anyways so if Jensen and Jared want to be and are with Daneel and Gen I dont mind at all!
I am not like a huge J2 fan because I prefer them straight and in love with me but lol people sometimes get so rude and disrespectful!! lol
dont know sometimes I feel ashamed to be in this fandom with so much wank and hate..but there are also times when i am proud because fans are also loving and supportive and bond together when they need to!

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yeah, that is certainly one of the good things of this fandom, stick together when it matters.

[ldyghstwhisprer.livejournal.com]

hi um I am ldyghst from twitter... I figured I would friend you here because *points to post* this post pretty much mirrors my thoughts.

Seriously, the one that stands out the most is your comment about Ruby's speech to Sam. I WANTED to see her blossom as a character after that but they killed her off... It always happens that way.

It happened that with Jo in Born Under A Bad Sign (without the being dead thing heh!) but with her it was a good character introduced at the wrong time...

[alwaysenduphere.livejournal.com]

Hi! This post hasn't been updated in so long, lol, but I think I still feel about the same way, especially where Ruby is concerned. She was so mediocre for me for the whole season - like, I wasn't against her she just didn't serve a purpose. And then she gave that big cool speech and it was like DUDE COOL. And then they killed her, boo.

Yeah, at least Jo got a good ending, but I wish we'd seen more of her too, oh my do I.